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Pardons and Open Thread

I'm sorry I am so late with this new open thread. I had to get a few stitches in my eyebrow (don't ask!). Anyway, I haven't seen the news other than a headline Joe Biden granted 1,500 pardons. I not only support them, whoever they are, I support Hunter Biden's pardon.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Hope you feel better, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 02:50:36 AM EST
    I was visiting Elder Daughter in Honolulu, and I just had surgery on my right hand earlier this week after getting bit badly by a neighbor's French bulldog that my 3-year-old grandson (who's non-verbal autistic) was annoying. The dog turned on him and when I stuck my hand out to prevent him from biting the boy, he bit me instead - really hard - because I got in the way.

    I'm so lucky he didn't rip any tendons, but I have two 1-inch gashes between my thumb and pointer finger, one on either side of my hand. I was supposed to return to Hilo on Monday but I've had to stay for a few days. I'm flying back home tomorrow night.

    I'll be coming back to Honolulu on Christmas Eve to see the surgeon, who's an orthopedic hand specialist, so he can make sure it's healing properly. We don't have any similar specialist in Hilo. I was lucky he was on duty that night at The Queen's Medical Center when I showed up in the hospital ER on Sunday evening. It took him about 90 minutes to sew everything back together, and he's been great on follow-up.

    It wasn't the dog's fault, as I reassured the neighbor, because my grandson can be a little demon and was clearly teasing him. That dog just clamped down hard and didn't let go, and my hand ripped open when I instinctively pulled away. He's actually a good dog. But as we now learned, he's incompatible with my autistic grandson, who has trouble respecting boundaries, animal and human alike.

    Oh, well. Could've been worse. It hurt like hell a couple days ago, but it's much better now. And for another week or so, I'm a one-handed typist. Good thing I'm left-handed.

    Aloha.

    Not 1500 "pardons," exactly, but rather (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 08:40:17 AM EST
    a grant of 39 pardons and almost 1500 commutations of long sentences of federal prisoners who had already been transferred to home confinement for more than a year (almost three years in some cases) on the authority of the CARES Act, to reduce prison overcrowding during the COVID pandemic. The effect of the commutations is to protect those individuals from being sent back to prison when they had demonstrated successful re-integration during the emergency program. Nearly all of them will now have a further period of "supervised release" (akin to probation or parole) for several years. One of those on the list was a client of mine. He got a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence in a drug case over 12 years ago that would be 15 (still excessive) if imposed today, has been on special CARES Act home confinement now for nearly three years, has established a business, rejoined his family, etc. Would be cruel to make him return to prison for no good reason, just because the risk of Covid spreading in institutions is now so much lower.

    But we know that... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jack E Lope on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 02:21:06 PM EST
    ...the right-wing talking point will be "1500 PARDONS!"

    Parent
    Don't get me started on the pardons (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Peter G on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 04:13:41 PM EST
    that Tr*mp granted at the end of his first term, or the process by which they were approved.

    Parent
    Ahhhh..commutations (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 12:02:48 PM EST
    That's what I get for not checking with the attorneys lol. I'm much better with commutations. Could we get Biden to pardon Martha Stewart though? I have always admired her. Her baking cookbook is my baking bible. Can't do without it. She always inspires me too.

    Watched her new Netflix documentary, and James Comey went after her the same way he did Hillary. What a rotten bastard behind that staid demeanor and very appropriate language and emotional inflection. He seems to have a type - that he hates - blonde, attractive, highly accomplished, not bending the knee to male dominance.

    She cannot be a CEO now. Her company suffered horribly once she was no longer at the helm. It's crap. And they threw her in a fed hole when she was imprisoned. Two normally dressed women when she was first incarcerated that she saw when she was on a morning walk, she stopped to say something about how nice the morning was or something and her hand brushed a chain that was at one woman's side. Guess it was attached to keys. She didn't even know they were guards. Tossed her into isolation. Just incredible.

    She refused to waste time though while she was there. She ended up mentoring other inmates in starting their own businesses. The woman didn't waste a single minute on burning daylight while she was incarcerated, and she has some words to share on the state of incarceration in our country. I admire her even more than I did before.

    Pardon Martha Joe! She ran a solid company, it wasn't all smoke and mirrors like so many others are when the market gets tough, I guess there are some mirrors around and if Snoop is about there might be some smoke lol, but she's solid man in making stuff work. Pardon Martha, Comey hunted her like he did Hillary.


    Parent

    Ha (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 03:34:49 PM EST
    I watched that documentary too. Enjoyed it very much. Martha definitely made the best of a bad situation. I now watch her on You Tube. Been thinking about you but trying to stay off X these days. Nothing good comes from that place especially now that our overlord is running the country.

    Parent
    True Story (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 05:05:38 PM EST
    Nothing good comes from that place lol.

    Parent
    Hay, Amanda Knox has a podcast now (none / 0) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 10:08:25 PM EST
    Just a bit off the hook. Discussing false confessions. She has solid experts too conversing on how this happens. She just rips the bandaid off on cops are benevolent. It is like finally understanding some things like you eventually do if you participate at Talkleft for awhile, but no lube for the gentle "I want it to be this way so it is" lamb souls voting for and supporting lamb eaters.

    It is a shut the fuck up Friday ad on steroids with experts.

    Parent

    I love (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 11:49:29 AM EST
    he pardoned Hunter.  

    I was in my backyard weeding this evening (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by vml68 on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    when I heard what sounded like a really loud squeaky wheel. I looked up and a few feet away from me, sitting in a pine tree was a pair of bald eagles. Made my day!

    Commutation of death sentences (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Peter G on Mon Dec 23, 2024 at 02:06:08 PM EST
    I am puzzling over President Biden's and his advisers' reasoning or moral line-drawing that leaves the death sentence in place for Jahar Tsarnaev, who was clearly less culpable in the Boston Marathon bombing than his late brother, for Robert Bowers, who killed 11 at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, and for Dylann Roof, who killed 9 at the Mother Emmanuel Church in Charleston, while commuting the death sentence of Kaboni Savage (the only one of the 37 others whose case I am pretty familiar with, as it was local, quite notorious, and I know a number of the lawyers). Savage (his real name!) was a psychopathic drug kingpin who killed (or ordered the killing of) 12 people he perceived to be rivals or "snitches," including the firebombing of a "snitch"'s home that killed four children and two adults. How is the "aggravating circumstance" of terrorism or hate crime motivation assessed as categorically "worse"?
      And speaking of moral reasoning, my wife declined to be appointed to represent a government witness against Savage, because she felt should could not be part of an effort to obtain a capital verdict against him (or anyone). I, on the other hand, did agree to convey to the FBI information against Savage (that he had and was using a contraband cell phone) for the benefit of an existing client who was in the same jail with him.

    Still some good (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Dec 23, 2024 at 02:37:13 PM EST

    Biden Commutes Sentences of 37 Death Row Inmates
    December 23, 2024 at 6:31 am EST By Taegan Goddard 60 Comments

    "President Biden, citing moral and policy objections to capital punishment, said he was commuting the death sentences of 37 inmates Monday, a move that prevents President-elect Donald Trump from executing most men on federal death row," the Wall Street Journal reports.

    Said Biden: "Make no mistake: I condemn these murderers, grieve for the victims of their despicable acts, and ache for all the families who have suffered unimaginable and irreparable loss."

    But, citing his early experience as a public defender as well as decades in federal office: "I am more convinced than ever that we must stop the use of the death penalty at the federal level. In good conscience, I cannot stand back and let a new administration resume executions that I halted."



    Parent
    Happy holidays to all (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 12:15:40 PM EST
    Ahh... a Modern version (none / 0) (#26)
    by jmacWA on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 03:18:09 PM EST
    From my youth, it's only the original WPIX (Channel 11) Yule log that does it for me.

    Parent
    The dragon egg is good (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 03:34:35 PM EST
    So (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 03:40:59 PM EST
    You are a pix viewer.

    Check this out
    it's a demo reel of my commercial work from the 80s

    It's long.  Sorry.  But in the middle there is a station ID group we did for WPIX.

    maybe you remember it.

    Parent

    By the 80s (none / 0) (#34)
    by jmacWA on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 04:58:33 AM EST
    I didn't view much WPIX.  Most of my viewing was as a youngster in the late 50s.  It had the Three Stooges, and Captain Jack McCarthy with popeye on daily.

    They also had Laurel and Hardy's Babes in Toyland on during the holiday season and that was also a favorite.

    Most of my viewing of PIX today, occurs on weekends when it is the only local news I can generally get here in Allentown PA.  If you were in NY in the 80's you may be surprised to know that Kaity Tong still anchors the PIX weekend news.

    Parent

    I remember wpix channel 11.. (none / 0) (#35)
    by desertswine on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 01:42:38 PM EST
    used to carry the Yankee games.  I would run home from school and was still able to catch the last few innings.  Red Barber, Mel Allen, Ballantine Beer, (Purity, Body, and Flavor).

    Parent
    And Eventually (none / 0) (#37)
    by jmacWA on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 03:18:11 PM EST
    The Mets too.  In the early days Mets were on WOR but eventually they joined the Yanks on PIX.

    I wasn't aware you grew up in NY.  I was a Long Island boy myself.

    Parent

    There has been talk (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Dec 13, 2024 at 06:35:26 PM EST
    of him giving preemptive pardons to people like the J6 committee members,  I think one even suggested it. Thompson?

    I'm not sure that a great idea.
    They did nothing wrong.  I don't believe they can be successfully prosecuted.

    And I think the right would love a bunch of preemptive pardons,  even if they might be deserved.

    Under ordinary circumstances (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 11:29:33 AM EST
    and in ordinary times  a preemptive pardon would seem defensive and unnecessary. But, there is nothing ordinary here or such questions would not even arise.

    It appears that destructive intentions such as downgrading or eliminating agencies and programs such as the FBI, SEC and FDIC will need the cover of flashy retribution.

    Protective pardons should be granted to a swipe of individuals who may be alleged to have violated any law or regulation in the reporting on, writing about, and/or investigating of,  the insurrection of January 6, 2021, all events leading up to and following such insurrection, including all components of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial  branches of the federal government.

    The pardon should "flood the zone" in keeping with the Pardon of January 21, 1977 in which Jimmy Carter granted an unconditional, blanket pardon to hundreds of thousands who may have committed any offense of the Military Service Act from August 4, 1964 to March 28, 1973.   President  Carter intended to put an end to the bad feelings that related to the Viet Nam war.

    Worrying about the reaction of Trump and his Republican sycophants is a battle lost right off the bat.  Whatever is done or not done will be subject to the lie machine.

    Parent

    Not everyone agrees (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 03:36:24 PM EST

    Bill Clinton indicates he hopes Biden doesn't issue preemptive pardons

    Clinton emphasized that he does not believe any potential charges from the incoming Trump administration brought against Hillary Clinton would be valid, arguing that she did not do anything wrong with her handling of emails during her time at the State Department -- a controversy which became a flashpoint late in the 2016 election cycle.



    Parent
    The purpose of those threats is not (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by Peter G on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 03:42:47 PM EST
    to actually prosecute those people, but to harass them and force them to spend/waste a lot of money on lawyers. There is no plausible, good faith basis for any prosecution, and no one in America can be "put in jail" except through criminal prosecution. A pre-emptive pardon would seemingly protect them against this oppression and harassment. Although I hate the idea of taking those bullying threats even halfway seriously.

    Parent
    There is (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:02:21 PM EST
    the argument that it won't stop Trump's justice department anyway. I have mixed feelings about this. What i would say is issue generic pardons to departments but not individuals. And I agree with Bill that Hillary would beat any charge and she has the money to fight. However there are a lot of low level employees he could bankrupt. Those are the people I am concerned about.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:39:08 PM EST
    Means tested pardons

    Parent
    Maybe there should be (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 04:41:56 PM EST
    a push to raise money for a defense slush fund.

    I'm sure the response would be huge.

    Parent

    In addition (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 14, 2024 at 05:08:07 PM EST
    to resource expenditure, investigations, indictments (and show trails), cause the expenditure of time and may inflict great stress and anxiety. While pardons eliminate a major concern, but if intent on harassment, Trump can deploy political means against businesses or IRS audits. But, criminal investigations of political enemies would be better for detraction and as raw meat for his followers. And, to intimidate criticism in the future.

    While a civil case, ABC settled a defamation case  brought by Trump for $15 million for a "presidential foundation and museum" plus $1 million for Trump's attorney fees.

     This settlement stems from an interview by George Stephanopoulos where he said that Trump was found liable for raping E. Jean Carroll. (the jury found Trump liable for sexual abuse, although the judge clarified it was rape.)

      Truth is the best defense against defamation, but settlements are often made to avoid the headaches of trial (or, possibly, in the ABC case, for political reasons).

    Parent

    He's gonna have to do something about (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 10:16:49 PM EST
    Milley, the Vindmans, probably Kelly

    It is a strange telling of the depth that being a functional American is - born in and into this country and raised in it, and to dislike John  Kelly as much as I do on a certain level - to say, "No, Trump doesn't get to go after Kelly. That's not who we are."

    Parent

    Hey (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Dec 21, 2024 at 09:12:54 AM EST
    Nice to see you

    Parent
    You, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 21, 2024 at 10:59:07 AM EST
    too.

    Parent
    Sh!tler wants to invade Poland, I mean Panama.. (none / 0) (#24)
    by desertswine on Mon Dec 23, 2024 at 10:50:19 PM EST
    And so it begins..

    In 2019, (none / 0) (#29)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 03:52:31 PM EST
    the owners of a Panama City hotel tower that was previously managed and operated under the Trump brand accused Trump organizations of not paying taxes to the Panamanian government.  Instead, the law suit claims the Trump companies simply kept the money "intentionally evading taxes" and leaving the new owner liable.  Subsequent filings.to the suit include claims of understating employee salaries to reduce social security payments to the government.

    A tax audit submitted as evidence in the law suit found massive inconsistencies. This case is still pending in NY District Court.

    The Panama City hotel tower has a storied past, including brawls among the principals in the venture and  money laundering charges that gave the property the name "Narco-a-Lago".

    Assessment of Trump's blustering about the Panama Canal needs to take into account his specialty of retribution from the position of power and his need to change the subject after botching the Continuing Resolution and being rebuffed by Republicans in his demand to increase or eliminate the debt ceiling so as to be able to plunder the US Treasury.  And, of course, to deflect from ridicule of the Musk Regency. And, too, what about reducing the price of eggs?

    Panama (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 03:56:27 PM EST
    Greenland.  Canada as the 51st state.

    Empire building.

    Parent

    Expansion of (none / 0) (#31)
    by KeysDan on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 04:25:44 PM EST
    territory.has always been part of fascist governments.

    Trump invading Greenland would be a real mess. Denmark, as being responsible for Greenland's security and defense,  is a part of NATO.  Invoking NATO Article 5 (an attack on one is an attack on all), would have all NATO countries defending Greenland.

    Fortunately, I doubt if Trump could find Greenland on the map.  Trump must want to put a golf course up in Greenland, probably, something as simple.

    Parent

    I've been offline a bit, so maybe I'm not (none / 0) (#36)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 02:20:28 PM EST
    keeping up. But when did Greenland become a matter of national security and the political hot potato of the moment. I'm looking and looking over my bingo card and I can't find it anywhere. Immigrants eating pets, check; immigrants murdering and raping American white women just willy nilly, check; eggs cost too much, check;  windmills cause cancer, check; climate change, a hoax, check. NO GREENLAND! Why didn't Kamala bring this up in the debate? This is obviously a big deal that has been boiling over for some. And they have covering it up.

    I think I've seen an offer on the table to purchase the US (why not, everything is for sale), just not government. I'm up for that. Buy us out and put the orange team out on their a$$es.

    Parent

    I think the public is going to grow tried (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 06:39:02 PM EST
    of the clown show pretty quick.

    Not sure if it will matter but I predict Trump will see approval numbers that will make Joes 30s and 40s enviable.

    If he really does this deportation thing that is going to consume the first 2 years and I think it will go very badly for him.

    Parent

    I believe that might be (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 06:32:27 PM EST
    Elons plan

    Parent
    -sigh- (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 05:36:38 PM EST

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    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump

    As soon as I am inaugurated, I will direct the Justice Department to vigorously pursue the death penalty to protect American families and children from violent rapists, murderers, and monsters. We will be a Nation of Law and Order again



    Are You Going to Comment on the Mangione Trial? (none / 0) (#33)
    by msaroff on Tue Dec 24, 2024 at 08:20:46 PM EST
    Regardless of his guilt or innocence, it appears to me that he is not going to get a fair trial.

    On first examination, the federal murder charges (none / 0) (#38)
    by Peter G on Wed Dec 25, 2024 at 04:05:48 PM EST
    against Mangione seem completely off base to me. Not every murder can be prosecuted in federal court; there has to be a jurisdictional connection to interstate travel or commerce and an applicable federal statute. The U.S. attorney for the Southern District of NY thinks that hook in Mangione's case is the federal interstate stalking statute, both directly and as a foundation for a firearms charge. The "complaint" setting forth their accusations is here.  But the stalking statute has as an element (that is, one of the things the prosecution would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt) that the defendant "engaged in conduct" that caused or was at least intended to cause the victim to fear injury or suffer emotional distress (it's "stalking" after all). I am not aware of any suggestion that Mangione ever communicated with Thompson, much less in a threatening way, and if Mangione then lurked and shot him in the back then there was not even a momentary causing of such fear or distress. The capital murder charge is likely predicated on the stalking as a categorical "crime of violence" (see subsection (j), referencing subsection (c)). So unless I'm missing something, I don't see the federal charges sticking at all.

    Parent
    How Much, (none / 0) (#42)
    by jmacWA on Thu Dec 26, 2024 at 05:10:12 AM EST
    if any of this do you think might be attributed to Trump's blood lust, and anger at Biden's commutations?  It is certainly not out of character, IMO.

    Parent
    None at all. Tr*mp has no influence over (none / 0) (#43)
    by Peter G on Thu Dec 26, 2024 at 10:30:16 AM EST
    the US atty's office in the Southern District of New York, at least not at this time. Prosecutors who invoke a potentially capital charge these days (at least in federal court) are mostly looking for the procedural advantages it gives them in pursuing the case (such as removing all potential jurors who have a fixed opposition to the death penalty), rather than really seeking a verdict of death.


    Parent
    That perp walk in New York was over the top. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Dec 26, 2024 at 03:42:11 AM EST
    From Unforgiven (Clint Eastwood, dir., 1992):

    The Schofield Kid (Jamie Woolvet): "It don't seem real - how he ain't gonna never breathe again, ever. How he's dead - and the other one, too, all on account of pulling a trigger."

    Will Munny (Clint Eastwood): "It's a hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got - and all he's ever gonna have."

    Schofield: "Yeah. Well, I guess they had it coming."

    Munny: "We all have it coming, kid."

    It was all so shamelessly theatrical, as befitting the city's own tone-deaf Mayor Eric Adams, an inveterate self-promoter who simply shrugged off the irony of his own recent felony indictment on multiple federal corruption charges in the unflappable belief that any publicity is good publicity.

    With so many in the general public already inclined to think that deceased UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson somehow had it coming, the sight of the telegenic Luigi Mangione being marched to the courthouse in jumpsuit and chains only further underscored my own feeling that Adams' malevolent dog-and-pony show may yet have the unintended net effect of overkill.

    Given Peter G's own insightful analysis of the superfluous federal charges against the defendant, the authorities appear to be collectively doing their damnedest to frame a likely guilty man and give him the bum's rush to the gallows. It's the legal equivalent of a multi-car pile-up on an interstate and something that's almost never a good look, regardless of whatever unseemly angle it's viewed.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Maybe, but it looks like he's going to have good (none / 0) (#44)
    by McBain on Thu Dec 26, 2024 at 11:18:14 AM EST
    legal representation and some public support.  The jury might not hate him before hearing the evidence.  

    I think Bryan Kohberger will have a harder time finding an open minded jury.  

    Parent